Flying Monkey Trouble - Tobizaru Accused of Bullying

[Kaninoyama 1,797]

10 hours ago, Godango said:

There are (seemingly) no allegations of theft or deliberately burning people, so this differs from the Hokuseiho case.

This made me laugh. I know you didn't mean it this way but almost makes it sound like theft and burning people--that's the line that must not be crossed. 

Edited February 6 by Kaninoyama

[Seiyashi 4,098]

58 minutes ago, Kaninoyama said:

This made me laugh. I know you didn't mean it this way but almost makes it sound like theft and burning people--that's the line that must not be crossed. 

Yeah, you can rob and you can commit arson, but god forbid you burn someone you just robbed.

[Kintamayama 45,199]

More sordid details*:

"Go buy some sanitary napkins and women's panties." The bullying wasn't limited to physical ones. "I heard that when a bath was too hot, Tobizaru made a point of calling Satsumashou and forcing him to get in the bath first, saying, 'You get in the tub,'" said an Oitekaze stable source . Looking back, it seems that Tobizaru  had also repeatedly subjected other young rikishi to some serious harassment. "It's not just Satsumashou, but his behavior towards his other tsukebito has also been arrogant and disrespectful. He would notice even the smallest mistake and yell abuse at them, or ignore them for days, repeatedly engaging in serious bullying. Also, perhaps because he wants to avoid spending money on eating out as much as possible, Tobizaru often invites women to his home. When he does this, he even gets the younger tsukebitos to cook hotpot and other dishes, and as soon as it's ready he sends them home. I've heard that he would often force  tsukebito to do odd jobs unrelated to sumo, such as suddenly telling them to 'go buy some sanitary napkins and women's underwear'" Abusive behaviour towards his junior tsukebito, both physical and mental. And so, Tobizaru has finally been questioned by the 'authorities'. What will the man himself have to say to this? We spoke to Tobizaru just before noon on February 2nd, as he was about to walk to the Oitekaze stable, which is just a stone's throw away from his home.

-"Were you called in by the Kyokai's compliance committee??"

-"We're in a hurry right now."

--"We heard that four tsukebito have quit."

-"Quit? From my stable? That's not true."

--"Is Satsumashou also planning to quit being a tsukebito? "

-"Ah, I don't know about that."

As Tobizaru said this, he ran into the Oitekaze stable as if fleeing. When we contacted the Sumo Association in writing about the quitting of four of Tobizaru's tsukebito, the reality of the bullying, and the investigation by the Compliance Committee, we received a phone call saying, "Please consider this to be a no-answer period." That is a troublesome answer from the Sumo Association  "It seems the sumo association is trying to put an end to this by just issuing a severe warning to Tobizaru. If that is the case, one cannot help but think that they want to put a lid on the situation," said an association official.

It is still fresh in our memory that when the "Weekly Shincho" reported on issues such as "alcohol harassment" at Nishonoseki beya in May of last year, the association's tendency to cover up was also apparent. The "self-purification ability" of the sumo world, which has been called into question many times before, is being put to the test once again. The February 6 issue of "Weekly Shincho" contains a detailed report on the full extent of Tobizaru's brutal harassment.

*- grain of salt, as of now, please.

Edited February 6 by Kintamayama

[Chartorenji 237]

--"Is Satsumashou also planning to quit being a tsukebito? "

-"Ah, I don't know about that."

words of an innocent man right here. At least say something like "I enjoy my relationship with Satsumashou and wish he doesn't leave the role." or something

[RabidJohn 1,794]

Tsukebito running errands for their sekitori is commonplace, isn't it? Being sent to buy feminine hygiene products and underwear wouldn't have fazed me in the slightest, but I know I'm in a minority. I used to be the one asked to buy condoms for my mates because I could look the cashier straight in the eye while doing it. Older lads who weren't my mates used to pay me. Madness even had a hit with a song about it called 'House of Fun'. Most adolescents found it mortally embarrassing, but it was also laughed about. 

I can well imagine Tobizaru thinking it was funny to sending his tsukebito off on that errand. It's the sort of wind-up that was practiced on British apprentices forever. "Go to the stores for a tub of elbow grease," or being sent to find a "long weight" only to discover you've been sent for a long wait.

But that was getting on for 50 years ago...

It's evident from Kintamayama's last post that the Weekly Shincho is a muck-raking tabloid with an anti-NSK agenda. Unfortunately it does have a track record of seeing the smoke and finding the fire.

[junsan 192]

Rotten fellow for sure. No matter whether or how overblown by the tabloid, Caesar's monkey should be above suspicion.

Edited February 6 by junsan

[Koorifuu 1,003]

FWIW Satsumasho started out relatively strong back in 2022, making sandanme after three basho in which he went 15-6 (5-2 6-1 4-3)... then hit the wall, and has been stuck in jonidan since.

Edited February 6 by Koorifuu

[Yarimotsu 584]

16 hours ago, BuBa said:

Also troubling how you guys dismiss completely the victims account and start to excuse the perpetrator.

I have no such intention - I'm speaking from the point-of-view of innocent until proven guilty, or at least the sense of such a position. I've noticed that this premise seems to be becoming less popular in the wider world at an alarming rate but it's one that I will hold. Seeking explanations that propose a version of events that allows the accused and the aggrieved to both have seen the same thing but be at a wildly different understanding is responsible speculation I think, and I don't entertain wild speculation much otherwise. I certainly don't seek to excuse the alleged actions or dismiss the alleged victim as a liar - I seek to test if other theories are still possible because investigating that angle is the only way to take the victim's account from a "he said she said" to a demonstrable case of abuse. I'm well aware that we aren't going to be doing any actual investigation from our armchairs, but this is the only way I'd like to see such cases handled - with respect and due process, not with the potential to devolve into a media war where the writers and the public just decide which story sounds more compelling.

[Yarimotsu 584]

14 hours ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

you ended up being wrong in Hokuseiho's case, I assume?

It's not about being right or wrong. In Hokuseiho's case I never said "this is the events as they happened" or anything along those lines. I merely suggested that there were possibly other explanations for the wording used in the article. Simply believing what is written not only at face value, but with implied context on top (as Japan's defamation laws are quite strict, I think they "talk around the issue" quite a lot to leave no room for legal action) - that's a recipe for injustice. I just said in more words that we don't know yet if Hokuseiho is a scumbag or not, and when a few days / hours later we had more information, I accepted that we knew he was a scumbag. I don't think that was taking Hokuseiho's side or even as extreme as playing devil's advocate.

[Muhomatsu 245]

I am not a fan of the gaslighting here, and only trying to compare it to the Hokuseihō case does not excuse the fact that Tobizaru may not just be an a$$hole.   
if true, the underlying problem is that the perpetrators do not see their stablemates as fellow human beings.  When that happens, it’s only a matter of time before much worse things happen.  If Tobizaru does not recognize some basic human attributes and dignity in his fellow stablemates, it’s only a matter of time before things can get much worse for them.  
It’s not a case of apples and oranges.  It’s a case of being able to tell right from wrong and to treat fellow humans decently.

[Yamanashi 3,865]

19 hours ago, yohcun said:

Pretty ironic that Tobizaru is a violence perpetrator given I've often thought he has the most punchable face in ozumo.

"Most bullies were bullied themselves when younger" -- some psychologist on TV or whatever.

[Wakawakawaka 154]

2 hours ago, Yarimotsu said:

I have no such intention - I'm speaking from the point-of-view of innocent until proven guilty, or at least the sense of such a position. I've noticed that this premise seems to be becoming less popular in the wider world at an alarming rate but it's one that I will hold. Seeking explanations that propose a version of events that allows the accused and the aggrieved to both have seen the same thing but be at a wildly different understanding is responsible speculation I think, and I don't entertain wild speculation much otherwise. I certainly don't seek to excuse the alleged actions or dismiss the alleged victim as a liar - I seek to test if other theories are still possible because investigating that angle is the only way to take the victim's account from a "he said she said" to a demonstrable case of abuse. I'm well aware that we aren't going to be doing any actual investigation from our armchairs, but this is the only way I'd like to see such cases handled - with respect and due process, not with the potential to devolve into a media war where the writers and the public just decide which story sounds more compelling.

Exactly. Until an investigation that is in proportion to the accusations is conducted, it would be equally wrong to either condemn Tobizaru or to call the accusers liars. The only way to which presumptive innocence can be applied to both parties in this court of public opinion so to say is to 'accept' the facts of the accusations, but posit missing context or misattributing of motive that would reveal Tobizaru's actions as perhaps reckless or thoughtless, but not malicious.

[Godango 996]

Speculating as to exactly what the truth in a tabloid report is, and what the scale of punishment should be, is pretty par for the course in a forum such as this. 

[Seiyashi 4,098]

24 minutes ago, Godango said:

Speculating as to exactly what the truth in a tabloid report is, and what the scale of punishment should be, is pretty par for the course in a forum such as this. 

As long as everyone's clear it's speculation. 

[Sumo Spiffy 568]

On 06/02/2025 at 09:46, Wakawakawaka said:

The only way to which presumptive innocence can be applied to both parties in this court of public opinion so to say is to 'accept' the facts of the accusations, but posit missing context or misattributing of motive that would reveal Tobizaru's actions as perhaps reckless or thoughtless, but not malicious.

This is not always useful, and it can be actively harmful. If someone is accused of something bad, whatever it is, immediately positing a less heinous explanation looks like you're trying to find reasons to excuse whatever happened, even if that's not your intention. The issue is two-fold: first, you're creating an excuse for whatever happened (again, regardless of whether that's your intention), and second, if it appears like a defense of the accused, it's the sort of thing that can make people less likely to come forward with stories like this. If people put forth automatic explanations as a reflex, it looks like the accuser's story simply isn't good enough and others think there is/probably is/may well be a different explanation.

One more time: this is frequently the effect, regardless of your intent.

On the flip side, if an accusation doesn't make sense, but a less heinous reading better fits the currently-known context, then it's more reasonable to do this. I've done it with this very story, so I absolutely believe there's room to gauge the information at hand and, sometimes, express alternative possibilities.

But I have to push back against the idea (expressed by multiple people) that creating alternative explanations for seriously bad behavior is routinely a good way to analyze these situations. A lot of time, if the evidence at hand isn't enough to say, yeah, so-and-so is a total rat, it's better to sit on it and wait to see what else comes out, and simply leave the accusations as they are.

Edited February 7 by Sumo Spiffy

[Godango 996]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is there actually an accusation made in this case? Or speculative reporting of an accusation?

[Akinomaki 40,620]

10 minutes ago, Godango said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is there actually an accusation made in this case? Or speculative reporting of an accusation?

It is a tabloid accusation. It is a usual pastime on the forum to speculate about it, any comment is permissible, as long as there is no report in the proper news that the NSK is investigating.

Countless lives are ruined because many people believe anything that appears in (fake) news.

[Sumo Spiffy 568]

51 minutes ago, Godango said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is there actually an accusation made in this case? Or speculative reporting of an accusation?

There was an NSK investigation, unless the latest translation I read was utterly and completely wrong. I imagine they wouldn't investigate if nothing had been accused. 

[Chartorenji 237]

On 06/02/2025 at 02:47, Koorifuu said:

FWIW Satsumasho started out relatively strong back in 2022, making sandanme after three basho in which he went 15-6 (5-2 6-1 4-3)... then hit the wall, and has been stuck in jonidan since.

I remember that he wasn't considered a super prospect,  but someone who could make Sandanme and potentially Makushita fairly easy. A lesser version of Toseiryu essentially. So he's def below expectations.

Edited February 7 by Chartorenji

[Katooshu 3,250]

I'm not sure Satsumasho won a single match in college, and his activity was mostly limited to the one tournament a year that is exclusively for club members who don't usually get a chance to compete. I can't imagine that anyone who saw him in action as an amateur expected him to reach makushita easily.

He started stronger than I expected in ozumo, but levelled out about where I expected him to. Extremely rare for a Nihon U grad to settle in jonidan, but in this case it's not surprising to me.

Edited February 7 by Katooshu

[rokudenashi 323]

Hmm… how long until the next basho, again? 

[Akinomaki 40,620]

The proper papers picked it up, now it gets hot for Tobizaru. He was interviewed at the NHK charity sumo and admitted, that he was questioned by the NSK compliance committee. He denies the allegations in the tabloid, but only as "Many things differ from the truth"

http://www.daily.co.jp/general/2025/02/08/0018629470.shtml

http://www.sponichi.co.jp/sports/news/2025/02/08/kiji/20250208s00005000244000c.html

http://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/202502080001425.html

 

Edited February 8 by Akinomaki

[Akinomaki 40,620]

So far only the sports papers, not the really "serious" press, but I guess we can say good-bye to Tobizaru. His personal koenkai 明猿会 ( meienkai, there is a also a club of Meiji university graduates with that name) tobizaru.jp posted a comment for the supporters about the tabloid article https://www.tobizaru.jp/image/index/news/202502070930.pdf

They think due to his big popularity, he attracted also negative press and hope, he will get away with a stern warning

- those days are over though, I'm afraid, excessive punishment is what the NSK is doing for quite a while now.

Edited February 8 by Akinomaki

[RabidJohn 1,794]

1 hour ago, Akinomaki said:

- those days are over though, I'm afraid, excessive punishment is what the NSK is doing for quite a while now.

I'd describe it as necessarily harsh rather than excessive.

It's the only way the NSK can stamp out the bullying and hazing that was customary a couple of decades ago, and show that it remains committed to doing so however long it takes.

[Kintamayama 45,199]

Nikkan spoke to Tobizaru, who denied the allegations. "Most of what was written is not true, * he said. When asked if he intends to sue the tabloid, he said he hasn't thought about it yet.