Haru 2025 discussion (results)

[Kaninoyama 1,817]

Is it just me or is the mean-mug stare-down act something that may have been acceptable for a lower-ranked rikishi but is unbecoming of a Yokozuna? 

Edited March 13 by Kaninoyama

[Oskanohana 293]

15 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

That was an honest shukun interview for Chiyoshoma: "I went all out for the henka"

Man, this will surely come up next year on the YDC deliberation about Ozeki Chiyoshoma's promotion to the next rank:

• "You've been doing some shifty sumo and we were going to let it slide in view of your excellent results, but sincerity of all things will not be tolerated at sumo's highest rank. That shows a poor image of the sport and a lack of hinkaku. Promotion denied."

 

On real news, Hakuyozan-Tomokaze was what an outsider would imagine sumo is. Two slumbering masses trying to unbalance each other clumsily. What a stinker. I laughed my ass off though. It reached the "it's so bad, it's good" category that only true connoiseurs can appreciate.

On the other side of the horseshoe, thus equally laughable, was Mitakeumi-Kayo, which deserved the Yakety Sax. How Kayo has made it this far with the quality of his sumo is still beyond my comprehension. Mitakeumi, poor fella, is still trying his best but he is going to be an oyakata pretty soon, methinks.

[Wakawakawaka 157]

4 hours ago, Kaninoyama said:

Is it just me or is the mean-mug stare-down act something that may have been acceptable for a lower-ranked rikishi but is unbecoming of a Yokozuna? 

How many people said Hoshoryu shouldn't try to stare down others like he's the man until he's the  man? So to answer your question, we'll find out when Kotozakura goes MK and Hoshoryu becomes Yokozeki-ozeki, perhaps that is the sweet spot where staredowns are acceptable.

[dingo 1,294]

7 hours ago, Octofuji said:

I think you've answered your own question ;)

I hope so, but I prefer to be cautious about Onosato's chances. Quite a few times in his bouts he looks like he's in control when suddenly he isn't. 

Edit: now that I think about it, that more or less describes the entire sanyaku and joi these days. 

Edited March 14 by dingo

[RabidJohn 1,854]

11 hours ago, Kaninoyama said:

Is it just me or is the mean-mug stare-down act something that may have been acceptable for a lower-ranked rikishi but is unbecoming of a Yokozuna? 

I take it you never saw Chiyonofuji. My recollection is of the 'death stare' occurring before each of his matches. It never went on for long, though.

So I don't believe it breaks hinkaku for a yokozuna.

The stare-down between Hoshoryu and Gonoyama that caused all the comment a while ago was problematic because it just went on and on, and time is a constraint.
Hoshoryu's always musubi-no-ichiban currently, so I imagine he gets told the time available while he's waiting in the hanamichi, and it's usually not excessive.

Edited March 14 by RabidJohn

[Kaninoyama 1,817]

46 minutes ago, RabidJohn said:

I take it you never saw Chiyonofuji. My recollection is of the 'death stare' occurring before each of his matches. It never went on for long, though.

So I don't believe it breaks hinkaku for a yokozuna.

The stare-down between Hoshoryu and Gonoyama that caused all the comment a while ago was problematic because it just went on and on, and time is a constraint.
Hoshoryu's always musubi-no-ichiban currently, so I imagine he gets told the time available while he's waiting in the hanamichi, and it's usually not excessive.

No, I began watching sumo right after the Chiyonofuji era, and then was largely absent from the Asashoryu era as well, so maybe I just missed seeing all the mean-mugging Yokozunae. As there seems to be precedent, please carry on with the dirty looks Hoshoryu...

[RabidJohn 1,854]

Yeah, it seems to have just gone out of fashion, which is a shame because it adds to the entertainment when done properly.

They were all at it 40 years ago: now it's notably uncommon.

[Morty 1,505]

1 hour ago, RabidJohn said:

Yeah, it seems to have just gone out of fashion, which is a shame because it adds to the entertainment when done properly.

They were all at it 40 years ago: now it's notably uncommon.

I used to love it. Let you know who was up for the fight. Even though it is less common now, my fave of recentish times was when Kise and Hak had a pretty serious stare down, then an epic match-up that Kise actually won. It was probably ten years ago now, but I'll never forget the drama of that moment.

[dingo 1,294]

After a promising first few days Atamifuji has run out of gas quite quickly. If he can't regroup soon he'll face another makekoshi. It seems to me he's capable of more but either injury or something else is holding him back. 

Abi went for his tried and true hit-shift-hit strategy and it worked on Kirishima perfectly. Abi is on a good trajectory to remain in sanyaku and continue haunting the yokozuna and other high rankers. 

Oho unfortunately let Wakatakakage go in on the belt and from that point it was a lost bout. I'm hoping Oho does well but so far both last basho maegashira yusho contenders are having a so-so basho at best. 

Kotozakura showed a glimpse of his normal self with some nice grip changes but he's still far from the yusho winner last year. I'm sure he knows that right now he has to focus on getting kachikoshi and surviving this health issue with his ozeki rank intact. 

[Seiyashi 4,108]

Most authoritative yokozuna sumo from Hōshōryū so far. 

[Yamanashi 3,903]

35 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

Most authoritative yokozuna sumo from Hōshōryū so far. 

He took the usual trickery from Tobizaru in stride, and when he had the yotsu locked in, he reminded me of Hakuho's patented "time to take out the trash" move.  To me, that's even better than a staredown.

[Koorifuu 1,020]

Kumanishiki became a persona non grata in some internet circles by appearing to injure cult hero Moriurara after an utterly needless late shove.

Edited March 14 by Koorifuu

[Oskanohana 293]

7 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

Most authoritative yokozuna sumo from Hōshōryū so far. 

Against the flying, monkey, big deal. I think that Hoshoyu thought for a while about lifting the monkey up for a tsuridashi or tsuriotoshi, and in the end decided to go for the prosaic finish, cause it gets him the same points. To kind of reuse an old internet meme, Uncle is disappoint.

[Yarimotsu 588]

8 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

Most authoritative yokozuna sumo from Hōshōryū so far. 

 

1 hour ago, Oskanohana said:

Against the flying, monkey, big deal.

Yes, big deal. I was concerned he would look weak or lose against Tobizaru, someone who beat him 10 times before Hoshoryu made yokozuna. 

[Shikona 168]

On 14/03/2025 at 01:09, Reonito said:

Not sure he took enough initial contact for it to qualify as an HNH...

They are all henka; the ridiculous distinction for the former yokozuna in this forum is just a fanboi thing, nothing you can rationally analyze.

[Reonito 1,518]

1 minute ago, Shikona said:

They are all henka; the ridiculous distinction for the former yokozuna in this forum is just a fanboi thing, nothing you can rationally analyze.

In his blasts from the past, @Kintamayama has included some old Harumafuji bouts. In some of them, he fully takes the tachiai head on, but then very quickly shifts to the side to get a grip. That seems worth distinguishing from the first step being to the side, even if it is subtle. I've seen it called "meet and move."

[Shikona 168]

On 14/03/2025 at 04:19, Jakusotsu said:

Anybody expecting Hoshoryu being disgusted by a henka obviously forgot about the first part of his career.

Strange comment, forgetting about the henka machine Harumafuji, who would would rant about how a henka attempt against HIM was an insult to ozeki dignity, then go out and pull henka on Asashoryu.

[Shikona 168]

1 minute ago, Reonito said:

In his blasts from the past, @Kintamayama has included some old Harumafuji bouts. In some of them, he fully takes the tachiai head on, but then very quickly shifts to the side to get a grip. That seems worth distinguishing from the first step being to the side, even if it is subtle. I've seen it called "meet and move."

I have seen these. You need to watch them slowly and especially the feet. A big step to the left, leaving only the opposite shoulder behind to take a marginal amount of contact. Move, then meet. If he was "fully taking the tachiai head on" people would not go flying past him, unless you believe he is made of air. I'm not saying this isn't skillful or that his wins aren't fully deserved. I just think credit should be given where due to the best henka artist of all time. I understand but won't go along with the cognitive dissonance affecting those who believe that they can't stand a henka, but love Ama, and therefore have to make up a new category for his henka. Just accept it for what it is. Perfectly legal and often effective. And he made it look cool. The only reason I like the move but not the artist is his hypocrisy, as noted above. 

[Shikona 168]

On 14/03/2025 at 06:45, Kaninoyama said:

Is it just me or is the mean-mug stare-down act something that may have been acceptable for a lower-ranked rikishi but is unbecoming of a Yokozuna? 

Odd that they have the guys face off and stare at each other several times before tachiai and the fans seem to love it, especially in the important bouts, isn't it? I haven't noticed any of the rikishi blowing kisses during the preliminaries, but maybe that's just me.

[Kintamayama 45,503]

8 hours ago, Shikona said:

They are all henka; the ridiculous distinction for the former yokozuna in this forum is just a fanboi thing, nothing you can rationally analyze.

Everybody makes that distinction because going head on or moving to the side before any contact is made are not the same thing.- Japanese commentators (calling it a "shift" instead of a henka-when it's a henka they call it loud and clear), newspaper articles, etc. I even invented a name for it -  HNH. And I do not appreciate being called a fanboy. 

Edited March 15 by Kintamayama

[RabidJohn 1,854]

9 hours ago, Shikona said:

I have seen these. You need to watch them slowly and especially the feet. A big step to the left, leaving only the opposite shoulder behind to take a marginal amount of contact. Move, then meet. If he was "fully taking the tachiai head on" people would not go flying past him, unless you believe he is made of air. I'm not saying this isn't skillful or that his wins aren't fully deserved. I just think credit should be given where due to the best henka artist of all time. I understand but won't go along with the cognitive dissonance affecting those who believe that they can't stand a henka, but love Ama, and therefore have to make up a new category for his henka. Just accept it for what it is. Perfectly legal and often effective. And he made it look cool. The only reason I like the move but not the artist is his hypocrisy, as noted above. 

I agree that any side step is a henka, but the slight shoulder check sets 'em up for the uwatenage follow through, which makes it visually and technically distinct from a side step that totally avoids frontal contact.

I see 'HNH' (Harumafuji non-henka) as a tongue-in-cheek shorthand to describe that distinction. I'm not mad about it, even though I know it's bollocks.
I would've called it a Chiyonofuji non-henka, but he wasn't the originator, either - and it's still a henka.

I'm just into my 10th year of watching ozumo again, so I missed Ama/Harumafuji moaning about henka. That's hilarious.

[lackmaker 438]

Thought HNH was henka non henka. Must have misremembered. 

[Seiyashi 4,108]

A meeting of the Takayasu yushō club should be called soon, I think. 

Ōnosato is going to be one of those winningnest rikishi people love to hate, because his brand of sumo is so oppressively dominant in combination with his physique.

On the other hand, Hōshōryū did a great job taking on Takanoshō at his own game today and winning. A much more technically rounded performance. 

Edited March 16 by Seiyashi
I have got my oshi wrestlers mixed up it seems

[RabidJohn 1,854]

7 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

Ōnosato is going to be one of those winningnest rikishi people love to hate, because his brand of sumo is so oppressively dominant in combination with his physique.

Maybe among the foreign fans on social media, but I expect Japanese fans will take a very long time to get fed up of a dominant Japanese rikishi.

I also suspect I'm not alone in hoping for a decent rivalry between heavyweight powerhouse Onosato and mid-weight technician Hoshoryu, akin to what we last saw with Akebono and Takanohana.

[Kintamayama 45,503]

5 hours ago, lackmaker said:

Thought HNH was henka non henka. Must have misremembered. 

Same thing. It probably became a Harumafuji non- henka when he started doing it more, but it is called a henka non-henka for the benefit of foreign fans who don't see the difference. We blessed few are here to guide them. As I watch all bouts from March 2015 lately for some reason, it seems every other Harumafuji bout was an HNH. I also don't see why any Harumafuji fanboy should be offended by this. It's a good technique that with time has grown apart from a henka per se and usually ends as an uwatenage, as opposed to a henka which usually ends with hatakikomi or hikiotoshi or loud sighs from the crowd or shouts of "FOUL!! NOT FAIR!" by the FNF (Fanboys not Fanboys).

Fanboy:

 

Edited March 15 by Kintamayama