Haru 2025 discussion (results)

[Dapeng 235]

3 hours ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

But that would already be way better than Hoshoryu's run. 

I think Hoshoryu was promoted because of his impressive performance on day-15. Still, some people considered his 12-3 yusho being "monotarinayi" (not good enough). 

[Dapeng 235]

3 hours ago, RabidJohn said:

An Onosato yusho in May will secure his promotion. The score won't really matter, only the fact of back to back yusho.

Recent events suggest it'll likely be either 12-3 or 13-2 with an outside chance of a 14-1. It's not going to be 11-4, as they seem (subjectively) even rarer than zensho.

I don't want him to get an easy ride, and I don't believe he needs one.

I don't think a 11-4-Y will lead to promotion but a 13-2-D or -J will. It depends on how he manages the pressure. 

[Katooshu 3,318]

That would be awkward if Onosato gets back to back yusho, with twice the yusho of the sole yokozuna and 4x as many as him in the period since making makuuchi, and is still at ozeki.

I've wondered, if an ozeki continually alternated between records like 14-1 Y/9-6, far surpassing an active yokozuna in tournament wins, ,how long, if ever, would it take before they finally threw their hands up and promoted him?

Edited Monday at 23:32 by Katooshu

[Ripe 73]

53 minutes ago, Dapeng said:

I don't think a 11-4-Y will lead to promotion but a 13-2-D or -J will. It depends on how he manages the pressure. 

I still believe the first criteria would be who wins... if he get back to back he gets promotion even with 11-4. Yusho by Hoshoryu or Kotozakura would count different then one by Sekiwake/Komusubi (13-2 D might be enough regardless but 13-2 J might not be if yusho doesn't go to Y/O). A yusho by Maegashira would probably not lead to promotion, regardless of the score.

[Dapeng 235]

57 minutes ago, Katooshu said:

That would be awkward if Onosato gets back to back yusho, with twice the yusho of the sole yokozuna and 4x as many as him in the period since making makuuchi, and is still at ozeki.

I've wondered, if an ozeki continually alternated between records like 14-1 Y/9-6, far surpassing an active yokozuna in tournament wins, ,how long, if ever, would it take before they finally threw their hands up and promoted him?

It seems no one who had regularly yushoed had ever failed to reach yokozuna position and only yokozuna was seen to alternate between yusho and non-yusho.

[Katooshu 3,318]

Ya, but what good is reality when you can have fun thought experiments 

[Morty 1,505]

26 minutes ago, Dapeng said:

It seems no one who had regularly yushoed had ever failed to reach yokozuna position and only yokozuna was seen to alternate between yusho and non-yusho.

I think the only one is Kaio who had five yusho and 11 jun-yusho, and had a number of consecutive quality basho performances that these days probably would have seen him promoted. If he did get the rope he probably would have had to retire about 2007 instead of 2011, but I suspect he would have agreed to that trade.

[Yamanashi 3,893]

5 hours ago, Katooshu said:

That would be awkward if Onosato gets back to back yusho, with twice the yusho of the sole yokozuna and 4x as many as him in the period since making makuuchi, and is still at ozeki.

I've wondered, if an ozeki continually alternated between records like 14-1 Y/9-6, far surpassing an active yokozuna in tournament wins, ,how long, if ever, would it take before they finally threw their hands up and promoted him?

How about 4 JY in a row?  Just asking for a friend of Onosato's ...

[Jakusotsu 6,037]

5 hours ago, Katooshu said:

Ya, but what good is reality when you can have fun thought experiments 

That reality would offer less chaff to scroll through.

[warusawa 9]

According to JSA Hoshoryu is still ozeki, so all is good.

https://www.sumo.or.jp/EnSumoDataRikishi/profile/3842/

[Gurowake 4,098]

3 hours ago, warusawa said:

According to JSA Hoshoryu is still ozeki, so all is good.

https://www.sumo.or.jp/EnSumoDataRikishi/profile/3842/

Well, he is.  You don't stop being a Ozeki when you become a Yokozuna.

And that link does say Yokozuna for rank now - perhaps you have a cached version of the page.

Edited Tuesday at 16:18 by Gurowake

[Kamitsuumi 402]

I too saw Ozeki three hours ago. This obviously means NSK employees lurk this forum

[just_some_guy 284]

17 hours ago, Dapeng said:

I don't think a 11-4-Y will lead to promotion but a 13-2-D or -J will. It depends on how he manages the pressure. 

Perhaps I didn't do this query correctly, but it looks like the last time someone had back to back yusho at Ozeki without getting a rope was 1950. I'd be interested to see any examples that I missed, and I'd bet you at least three hot dogs that any Onosato yusho next basho--even an 11-4--gets him a Yokozuna promotion.

 

Edit to add: Yes, there were no 11-4s in my query example but I don't think it'll matter.

Edited Tuesday at 16:30 by just_some_guy

[Asashosakari 19,606]

19 minutes ago, Gurowake said:

And that link does say Yokozuna for rank now - perhaps you have a cached version of the page.

Their site had entirely reverted to January data including tournament results etc. for a few hours for some reason.

[warusawa 9]

1 hour ago, Gurowake said:

Well, he is.  You don't stop being a Ozeki when you become a Yokozuna.

And that link does say Yokozuna for rank now - perhaps you have a cached version of the page.

Perhaps not.

[Reonito 1,507]

2 hours ago, just_some_guy said:

Perhaps I didn't do this query correctly, but it looks like the last time someone had back to back yusho at Ozeki without getting a rope was 1950. I'd be interested to see any examples that I missed, and I'd bet you at least three hot dogs that any Onosato yusho next basho--even an 11-4--gets him a Yokozuna promotion.

 

Edit to add: Yes, there were no 11-4s in my query example but I don't think it'll matter.

We've had this discussion a couple of times before, when Takakeisho got his 11-4 yusho and last basho about Hoshoryu. I recall someone had really clarifying comments from reading the actual promotion guidelines in Japanese. I think it was "two consecutive yusho or an equivalent performance." So promotion after YY seems pretty cut and dried, and "equivalent" apparently refers to the two tournaments overall and not a single-basho performance, with plenty of room for interpretation.

[Dapeng 235]

26 minutes ago, Reonito said:

We've had this discussion a couple of times before, when Takakeisho got his 11-4 yusho and last basho about Hoshoryu. I recall someone had really clarifying comments from reading the actual promotion guidelines in Japanese. I think it was "two consecutive yusho or an equivalent performance." So promotion after YY seems pretty cut and dried, and "equivalent" apparently refers to the two tournaments overall and not a single-basho performance, with plenty of room for interpretation.

There are also other requirements such as "outstanding strength". Losing 4 bouts in one basho can't be considered "outstanding". 

[Andreas21 188]

Churanoumi was the big spoiler this basho.

On day 13 he spoiled Tamawashi's path to a honorary Sansho.

On day 14 he spoiled Takayasu's Yusho chances.

On day 15 he spoiled Daieisho's Ozeki run.

Let's see what comes next!

[Dapeng 235]

5 hours ago, Andreas21 said:

On day 14 he spoiled Takayasu's Yusho chances.

One rikishi's non-historical win becomes a historical loss of another rikishi ...