Nishonoseki Beya Drinking Party Scandal

[Akinomaki 40,593]

1 hour ago, Xiongmao said:

How odd. Worldwide web and all that. And Yahoo Japan is the opposite of  subversive. Wonder why.

Trouble with European regulations, Yahoo Japan has blocked all access to all EU members for years now - also former ones

Quote

From Wednesday, April 6, 2022, Yahoo! JAPAN is no longer available in the EEA and the United Kingdom

Please be informed that from Wednesday, April 6, 2022, Yahoo! JAPAN’s services are no longer available to our users in the EEA (European Economic Area) and the United Kingdom, as it has been determined by Yahoo! JAPAN that providing a continuous service environment in these regions would be difficult. Please note that services listed under “Services available after Wednesday, April 6, 2022” below will continue to be available.

Please note that all Yahoo! JAPAN services are accessible after this date if access is made from Japan.

Using a VPN, like the free one from Tsukuba university I use for also Abema, allows access

Edited Thursday at 09:08 by Akinomaki

[Koorifuu 1,003]

I'm sure you can find posts of me whining about Yahoo Japan links since as far back as mid 2022. 

Regarding the event... the progressive in me says, if they were actually having fun, who cares? Pretty sure that's up some guys' alley anyway, figuratively and literally. To each their own, it doesn't cause me (or anyone) problems, so why should I meddle.

It's only a (very serious) problem if it was coerced / assault, which the alleged victims will definitely claim to be the case if it gets to the point they need to save their own skin. If proven, that should definitely warrant severe civil/criminal consequences that go beyond ozumo.

Edited Thursday at 09:58 by Koorifuu

[Seiyashi 4,097]

Problem is, with that degree of intoxication, the question of "informed consent" gets really shady with that much impaired judgment going around the room.

And even if the participants were entirely willing, optically this is miles worse than Abi's prank on WMH, and look what that stirred up. 

[Bunbukuchagama 732]

14 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

Problem is, with that degree of intoxication, the question of "informed consent" gets really shady with that much impaired judgment going around the room.

And even if the participants were entirely willing, optically this is miles worse than Abi's prank on WMH, and look what that stirred up. 

Exactly. - "Hey, rookie - when we all get wasted, you don't mind us shoving a sake bottle up your ass?" - "Sure, be my guest". - "And we are going to film it too!'

-

[Seiyashi 4,097]

1 minute ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

Exactly. - "Hey, rookie - when we all get wasted, you don't mind us shoving a sake bottle up your ass?" - "Sure, be my guest". - "And we are going to film it too!'

-

You forgot the bit where someone thought it was a good idea to then drink out of it. 

[Bunbukuchagama 732]

Just now, Seiyashi said:

You forgot the bit where someone thought it was a good idea to then drink out of it. 

It is a given that anything resembling hygiene is gone out the window in such a situation.

[Ryoshishokunin 301]

6 hours ago, Xiongmao said:

How odd. Worldwide web and all that. And Yahoo Japan is the opposite of  subversive. Wonder why.

EU laws that Yahoo! can't be bothered to comply with.  Mostly because they require data privacy. 

[Muhomatsu 245]

5 hours ago, Koorifuu said:

I'm sure you can find posts of me whining about Yahoo Japan links since as far back as mid 2022. 

Regarding the event... the progressive in me says, if they were actually having fun, who cares? Pretty sure that's up some guys' alley anyway, figuratively and literally. To each their own, it doesn't cause me (or anyone) problems, so why should I meddle.

It's only a (very serious) problem if it was coerced / assault, which the alleged victims will definitely claim to be the case if it gets to the point they need to save their own skin. If proven, that should definitely warrant severe civil/criminal consequences that go beyond ozumo.

In this case, it is pretty damned clear that there is an assault and a coerced victim. 

We have a situation where the higher rankers are committing "power harassment" on a junior colleague. The relative power differential is very high - and the ability to "just say no" is very reduced - likely to zero. Couple this with drinking being involved - which impairs judgement of the victim ("she was drunk" will not get anyone off of a rape charge!).  In fact, I would think that there is enough evidence just in those photos and storyline to pursue criminal charges (at least civilly in the US) for sexual violence. 

The math above clearly points to abuse - abuse that has been covered up for two years (which is another scandal on its own).  We will likely see the powers that be - the same ones who have been claiming "health and safety" are paramount for the past few years - sweep this under the rug as fast as possible.  The victim is likely gone, paid off with some small sum to stay quiet.  The perpetrators should be finished.  The boss may get a relatively small slap on the wrist (IMO) and the scandal clock reset for a few more weeks.  Unfortunately, we shall all see each other again soon - under a different forum topic - with a new scandal.

[Kintamayama 45,158]

Google translate has become pretttty good lately. Interesting read.

[junsan 192]

Moto Kisenosato was their last blue eyed boy Japanese born Yokozuna. Onosato is their next hopeful. It should be clear why things have been hushed up for 2 years.

[Katooshu 3,246]

Well Onosato was competing in college sumo and hadn't selected a heya when this happened, nor would he turn pro for another 6 months, so this one being covered up wasn't related to him.

Edited Friday at 01:46 by Katooshu

[Gurowake 4,084]

19 minutes ago, Katooshu said:

Well Onosato was competing in college sumo and hadn't selected a heya when this happened

And yet this was the one he selected.  Maybe that's part of the deal here somehow.

[Katooshu 3,246]

1 hour ago, Gurowake said:

And yet this was the one he selected.  Maybe that's part of the deal here somehow.

The wild drinking parties were part of the deal? That guys could do whatever and get it covered up at Nishonoseki? Maybe, but that's a guessing game. There are all sorts of reasons one may choose a particular heya.

Still into 2023 he was mulling heya choices and reportedly favoured options other than Nishonoseki, before his college coach threatened to disown him for not going with an NSSU approve heya. This incident would've been kept quiet for months already before he decided and for the many months on top of that before he looked anything like a realistic yokozuna prospect. In his second makushita tournament people were already going on about how overrated he must be since he only went 4-3 and Hakuoho, with his 7-0 debut, was all the craze at the time. I think he's irrelevant to why this incident was being kept under wraps. 

Edited Friday at 02:32 by Katooshu

[Gurowake 4,084]

1 hour ago, Katooshu said:

Maybe, but that's a guessing game.

Exactly.  I'm just doing the same random speculation that everyone else is.

[BigKahunaMan 8]

This coming out now being part of the deal around Onosato's stable choice seems to me more like the video being mentioned to or coming into the hands of an oyakata who's still salty about not being the choice. But maybe that's just the conspiracy theorist in me.

[Kaninoyama 1,797]

Surprising that all this would be happening at Nishonoseki-beya of all places. I mean, Kisenosato went to grad school and wrote a dissertation on how to run the ideal stable for christ sake. 

If anyone was prepared to run a heya, it should have been him. 

Edited Friday at 04:58 by Kaninoyama

[dingo 1,265]

Kisenosato also likely had his hands full doing Kyokai jobs, koenkai and community relations, PR and who knows what else. Dunno how much he was actually be able to be at the stable. As far as I understand few oyakata are able to be at the stable premises 24/7 and police their rikishi. And if Nishonoseki was away what were the other coaches who are supposed to be responsible doing!? Sure, it's the oyakata's job to make sure nothing unseemly happens and not being present doesn't relieve Kisenosato from responsibility but in my mind that also doesn't relieve the rikishi living and training there from the duty of being a decent person. The functioning of a heya has to be based on mutual trust to some extent at least. The sheer stupidity of all those directly involved boggles my mind. Especially the older rikishi, and especially Tomokaze who I thought is a decent guy but turns out is an idiot in the best case and an evil psychopath in the worst. Eye for an eye (ass for an ass?) seems to be a fitting punishment...

Edited Friday at 06:11 by dingo

[Naganoyama 5,928]

Hakuho being too busy to pay attention at his heya cut no ice.

[Seiyashi 4,097]

4 hours ago, Naganoyama said:

Hakuho being too busy to pay attention at his heya cut no ice.

It had better not in Nishonoseki's case either. It's the ichimon kanban heya too. 

[Seiyashi 4,097]

4 hours ago, dingo said:

Sure, it's the oyakata's job to make sure nothing unseemly happens and not being present doesn't relieve Kisenosato from responsibility but in my mind that also doesn't relieve the rikishi living and training there from the duty of being a decent person. The functioning of a heya has to be based on mutual trust to some extent at least.

I'm beginning to think that the hierarchical association of privilege with banzuke rank is an inherent part of the problem in a Lord of the Flies way. If you train in a system where physical power is power, it's easy to slip into the mentality that anyone without that power is weak and deserves to be trodden on. It takes a lot of conscious effort from multiple people to hold the line at decency, and not just go along with the least civilised denominator out of peer pressure. 

[Leoben 143]

In some ways it's remarkable that there aren't more and worse cases.

All male environment. Super insular. Culture of machismo and of silence. Strength = power. And the sport's deep rooted traditionalism along with Japan's hierarchical culture. It looks like a set of conditions an anthropologist would devise to conduct a social experiment with college students.

[arkinso 11]

10 minutes ago, Leoben said:

In some ways it's remarkable that there aren't more and worse cases.

All male environment. Super insular. Culture of machismo and of silence. Strength = power. And the sport's deep rooted traditionalism along with Japan's hierarchical culture. It looks like a set of conditions an anthropologist would devise to conduct a social experiment with college students.

I've been in the army for 3 years - an all male environment. Super insular. Culture of machismo and of silence. Strength = power - and I never seen anything like that. Not even close.

BTW, I hate it when masculinity is blamed for such actions. Some man are evil, just as some women. If you think that such things cannot happen in an all-female environment, then you know very little about women.

[RabidJohn 1,791]

I was a coal miner through the 80s and into the 90s. Exclusively all-male environment - and out of sight - and I witnessed some very odd sexual behaviour on my very 1st day underground. Nothing I'd describe as evil, but if they were trying to faze me, they failed. I just warned them I would bite, and never had a problem.

I suspect the almost nonstop verbal jousting and trick-playing would be viewed as bullying nowadays, but physical fights were exceedingly rare and I'm just grateful for the thick skin it gave me.

And we were all sober!

That a bunch of young men got drunk and did some dumb shit is not a scandal in my book: it's normal behaviour.

[Tochinofuji 385]

2 hours ago, arkinso said:

I've been in the army for 3 years - an all male environment. Super insular. Culture of machismo and of silence. Strength = power - and I never seen anything like that. Not even close.

BTW, I hate it when masculinity is blamed for such actions. Some man are evil, just as some women. If you think that such things cannot happen in an all-female environment, then you know very little about women.

You may not have seen it, but many militaries have experienced it. Even if you spend your entire career in the military and never see it, that is called anecdote - not data. 

Some men are evil, some women are, but hazing of this sort happens far more amongst men. Masculinity and some of its cultural trappings appear to be common features and contributing factors. No one is saying it doesn't happen with women, or in mixed gender settings. But single-sex male contexts certainly seem to make it more likely. 

[Ryoshishokunin 301]

1 hour ago, RabidJohn said:

That a bunch of young men got drunk and did some dumb shit is not a scandal in my book: it's normal behaviour.

This particular dumb shit is (potentially) rape.