Banzuke Haru Basho 2005

[Gernobono 467]

Y Asashoryu (Y, 15-0)

O Chiyotaikai (O, 8-7) Kaio (O, 4-6-5)

Tochiazuma (S, 11-4)

S Miyabiyama (S, 9-6) Hakuho (K, 11-4)

K Iwakiyama (M1, 8-7) Kotooshu (M4, 9-6)

M1 Kyokutenho (M6, 10-5) Wakanosato (S, 6-9)

M2 Kotomitsuki (K, 7-8) Kakizoe (M4, 8-7)

M3 Tosanoumi (M2, 7-8) Hayateumi (M7, 8-7)

M4 Kokkai (M3, 7-8) Tochinonada (M1, 5-10)

M5 Dejima (M10, 9-6) Hokutoriki (M8, 8-7)

M6 Kyokushuzan (M10, 9-6) Roho (M5, 7-8)

M7 Jumonji (M11, 9-6) Tamanoshima (M3, 5-10)

M8 Shimotori (M9, 8-7) Takamisakari (M5, 6-9)

M9 Kotonowaka (M2, 4-11) Asasekiryu (M11, 8-7)

M10 Buyuzan (M13, 9-6) Kaiho (M6, 5-10)

M11 Kasugao (M14, 9-6) Ama (M13, 8-6-1)

M12 Takanowaka (M9, 6-9) Kotoryu (M7, 4-11)

M13 Toyonoshima (M17, 8-7) Futeno (J1, 9-6)

M14 Kasuganishiki (J4, 10-5) Toyozakura (J2, 9-6)

M15 Tamakasuga (M14, 7-8) Kisenosato (M12, 6-9)

M16 Tokitsuumi (M12, 5-10) Otsukasa (J7, 12-3)

M17 Ishide (J4, 9-6) Aminishiki (M16, 7-8)

[amgaa99 0]

Where is the full banzuke? Please.

[Mark Buckton 1]

on my living room table - lots of them.

[Kasugaran 0]

M11! Wahoo! Kasugaoo is making his move... all the way to the top, yeah!

[Fukurou 534]

Where is the full banzuke? Please.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Juryo banzuke (in English) is at http://sumo.goo.ne.jp/eng/hon_basho/banzuke/ban_2_1.html

The NSK website also has links (Japanese only) for

Makushita: http://sumo.goo.ne.jp/hon_basho/banzuke/ban_3_1.html

Sandanme: http://sumo.goo.ne.jp/hon_basho/banzuke/ban_4_1.html

Jonidan: http://sumo.goo.ne.jp/hon_basho/banzuke/ban_5_1.html

Jonokuchi: http://sumo.goo.ne.jp/hon_basho/banzuke/ban_6_1.html

[Odoriou 0]

Takekaze (M 8 w, 0-15) dropped to Juryo 3 e

Tokitenku (M 17 w, 6-9) now is Juryo 2 w

Kotoshogiku (5-10) made it from M 16 e to Juryo 4 e

Tochisakae and Harunoyama (0-15) both fell from M 15 to Juryo 10

I'm really surprised, how deep they all fell. (Just do not get it...) It's a long way from Maegashira 15 to Juryo 10... (In a state of confusion...)

[Zentoryu 154]

Takekaze (M 8 w, 0-15) dropped to Juryo 3 e

Tokitenku (M 17 w, 6-9) now is Juryo 2 w

Kotoshogiku (5-10) made it from M 16 e to Juryo 4 e

Tochisakae and Harunoyama (0-15) both fell from M 15 to Juryo 10

I'm really surprised, how deep they all fell.  (Just do not get it...) It's a long way from Maegashira 15 to Juryo 10...  (In a state of confusion...)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, they're lucky they didn't drop any further.

They only fell about 12 spots. It could have been a lot worse. Missing a basho these days can be a real rank killer.

[Avitohol 0]

Kotooshu at komosubi is this a new record for fastest promotion from the lowest division to sanyaku? (In a state of confusion...)

[Yubiquitoyama 4]

Kotooshu at komosubi is this a new record for fastest promotion from the lowest division to sanyaku? ;-)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, tied at number one together with Asashoryu, both having 14 basho before Komusubi promotion (post-war list, mae-zumo start).

EDIT: Thought I read "to Komusubi promotion"... It's still true for "sanyaku promotion", but then Konishiki also ties for number one, who passed Komusubi first time out.

Edited February 28, 2005 by Yubiquitoyama

[Odoriou 0]

... I'm really surprised, how deep they all fell.

[Fukurou 534]

Takekaze (M 8 w, 0-15) dropped to Juryo 3 e

Tokitenku (M 17 w, 6-9) now is Juryo 2 w

Kotoshogiku (5-10) made it from M 16 e to Juryo 4 e

Tochisakae and Harunoyama (0-15) both fell from M 15 to Juryo 10

I'm really surprised, how deep they all fell.  (Just do not get it...) It's a long way from Maegashira 15 to Juryo 10...  ;-)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A couple of deep climbers to watch - 6 wins in January moved former Makunouchi Tamarikido back up the banzuke from Sandanme 80 West to Sandanme 22 West. Former Juryo Wakatenrou (last seen in Juryo in March '03) achieved 7 wins and climbed from Jonidan 110 West to Sandanme 95 West.

[Pikenoyama 27]

A couple of deep climbers to watch - 6 wins in January moved former Makunouchi Tamarikido back up the banzuke from Sandanme 80 West to Sandanme 22 West. Former Juryo Wakatenrou (last seen in Juryo in March '03) achieved 7 wins and climbed from Jonidan 110 West to Sandanme 95 West.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Please, can somebody post here, the ranking for Haru for former Juryos Kotonomine and Tochifudo? They will have opposite direction of their movement than Wakatenro and Tamarikido ;-)

[Asashosakari 19,451]

Okay, but it's hardly possible to rise from Juryo 10 to Maegashira 15...

Edited February 28, 2005 by Asashosakari

[Kashunowaka 300]

Okay, but it's hardly possible to rise from Juryo 10 to Maegashira 15...  ;-)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Tokitenku rose from J10 to M17 with 12-3 last year (+10 slots), and Otsukasa's 12-3 from J7 this time was good enough for M16 (+8). So a -12 drop for 0-0-15 seems OK to me. They probably need around 13-2 to get back to where they were. Very difficult, but not impossible.

[Pikenoyama 27]

Sure. Kotonomine Sd8e, Tochifudo Sd77w (no surprise on that one...)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks a lot Asashosakari ;-)

[Fukurou 534]

Please, can somebody post here, the ranking for Haru for former Juryos Kotonomine and Tochifudo?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sure. Kotonomine Sd8e, Tochifudo Sd77w (no surprise on that one...)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just to add, in his last 6 basho Kotonomine had 5 wins (at Makushita 9E), 4 wins (Mk3E), 7 wins (J13W), 0 wins (J14W - withdrew), 0 wins (Mk14E), and 2 wins (Mk49W), which drops him to the present Sd8E.

In the same 6 basho, Toshifudou had 4 wins (at Mk3E), 4 wins (J14E), 2 wins (Mk10E), 2 wins (Mk22E - withdrew), absent (Mk37W), and absent again (Sd17W), dropping him to Sd77W.

[Zentoryu 154]

Okay, but it's hardly possible to rise from Juryo 10 to Maegashira 15...  ;-)  I just don't get that, it's unfair somehow. (Just do not get it...)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You have to remember that we are talking about an equivelent 0-15 record here. This is the worst possible record a rikishi can get, which means that they are in line for the worst possible demotion (even though they earned that 0-15 by being injured).

And, as pointed out by others, its also possible to go from J10 to M15 with a good record and a little bit of banzuke luck (a 15-0 record would be a certainty, 14-1 would probably be a certainty, while a 13-2 would have a good chance also), particularly nowadays when the kyokai seems to be getting a little more dynamic with the promotions and demotions between the two top divisions. Even a 12-3 would give a rikishi an outside chance at such a promotion if the cards fall just right. :-/

Edited February 28, 2005 by Zentoryu

[Odoriou 0]

My statement made many members try to prove me wrong. But nobody could actually name a Rikishi, who really rose from Juryo 10 to Maegashira 15 (or J9 to M14 or similar). (Showing respect...)

It's much more easy to fall this far than to rise the same way (in the upper part of the Banzuke, at least) - that's what I meant with "unfair".

Anyway, thanks to the posters above, I learned that there is more 'vitality' in the Banzuke than I thought. Especially Fukurou's posting (rises from Jonidan 110 to Sandanme 95 are possible) was surprising me. Thank you all. (Sigh...)

[Kintamayama 45,285]

My statement made many members try to prove me wrong. But nobody could actually name a Rikishi, who really rose from Juryo 10 to Maegashira 15 (or J9 to M14 or similar). (Shaking head...)

It's much more easy to fall this far than to rise the same way (in the upper part of the Banzuke, at least) - that's what I meant with "unfair".

Anyway, thanks to the posters above, I learned that there is more 'vitality' in the Banzuke than I thought. Especially Fukurou's posting (rises from Jonidan 110 to Sandanme 95 are possible) was surprising me. Thank you all. :-)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's simply because in Juryo it is much more difficult to win 13/14 let alone get a zensho. When someone will zensho from J10, he will be in Makuuchi. Also, these guys dropped because they got an automatic 0-15 for not participating. Not many guys who actually participate get a 0-15 in Makuuchi. Since there is no opposite equivalent, i.e. an automatic zensho, there obviously will be a discrepancy.

[Asashosakari 19,451]

My statement made many members try to prove me wrong. But nobody could actually name a Rikishi, who really rose from Juryo 10 to Maegashira 15 (or J9 to M14 or similar). (Shaking head...)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh, that's easy. Banryuyama 1982.11: J10w 13-2Y -> M14w :-) Or Tenryu 1975.07: J10w 13-2Y -> M13w.

Not quite comparable though because Makuuchi only had 38 and 36 rikishi respectively at those times. (Both promotions were by 10 ranks, still a bit short of the 12 ranks you're asking for.)

Edit: Just to put this matter completely to rest, Yutakayama did rise exactly 12 ranks after his Juryo zensho in 1961.11 (J7w -> M9e).

Edited March 1, 2005 by Asashosakari

[Odoriou 0]

Edit: Just to put this matter completely to rest, Yutakayama did rise exactly 12 ranks after his Juryo zensho in 1961.11 (J7w -> M9e).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Great, thanks for searching. (Shaking head...)

You gave me one example for a 12 slot rise in 1961 - I can give you three for a drop in 2005. (Bleh!)

[Yubiquitoyama 4]

Edit: Just to put this matter completely to rest, Yutakayama did rise exactly 12 ranks after his Juryo zensho in 1961.11 (J7w -> M9e).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Great, thanks for searching. (Shaking head...)

You gave me one example for a 12 slot rise in 1961 - I can give you three for a drop in 2005. (Bleh!)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not that went 0-15. It's very unusual although not quite as unusual as Juryo zensho yusho. B-)

The fact that the current kosho system isn't is quite another issue :-)

Edited March 1, 2005 by Yubiquitoyama

[Zeokage 0]

I checked out some of the rises and falls and found some things that I wasn't sure about...

M5 Roho 7-8

M10 Kyokushuzan 9-6

Using the difference = rank movement standard, Roho should be around M6 with Shuzan at M7, however in the banzuke Shuzan is above Roho at M6... why would this be?

[Yubiquitoyama 4]

I checked out some of the rises and falls and found some things that I wasn't sure about...

M5 Roho 7-8

M10 Kyokushuzan 9-6

Using the difference = rank movement standard, Roho should be around M6 with Shuzan at M7, however in the banzuke Shuzan is above Roho at M6... why would this be?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This isn't a standard but at most a rule of thumb. In reality a M10 with a 9-6 has mostly ended up at M05 or higher, so a 7-8 at M06 would very seldom, if ever, be ranked above a 9-6 M10 on the following banzuke.

[Doitsuyama 1,190]

I checked out some of the rises and falls and found some things that I wasn't sure about...

M5 Roho 7-8

M10 Kyokushuzan 9-6

Using the difference = rank movement standard, Roho should be around M6 with Shuzan at M7, however in the banzuke Shuzan is above Roho at M6... why would this be?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This isn't a standard but at most a rule of thumb. In reality a M10 with a 9-6 has mostly ended up at M05 or higher, so a 7-8 at M06 would very seldom, if ever, be ranked above a 9-6 M10 on the following banzuke.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you care more about such questions in general, I recommend Kashunowaka's excellent promotion search tool. It gives this result for the Roho-Kyokushuzan combination.