Hopeless

[Hakuyobaku 33]

Well 672 mattas are no good, that's right.. But if you ask me Kokkai dug his own grave right there. very bad taste in mouth bout. Not because of henka, just something really not ok

[aderechelsea 125]

well ... some guys never learn ... (You are going off-topic...)

Kokkai was probably the ONLY person in the world that didn't understand that Riki was setting the ground for a henka...

sometimes i wonder if they ever watch the matches of other rikishi.

he is really hopeless if he falls for that kind of moves.

i won't start bashing at Riki's poor sumo because i think Kokkai is the only one to blame in this case.

:-)

[Petr 0]

I haven't stopped laughing yet.

Hokutoriki's comment: 明らかに僕は早すぎる。だめですね。

Obviously, I am starting too early. That's no good.

[aderechelsea 125]

damn ... opened a topic myself for that one ...

mods please merge them to save space

[Kintamayama 45,527]

well ... some guys never learn ... (You are going off-topic...)

Kokkai was probably the ONLY person in the world that didn't understand that Riki was setting the ground for a henka...

sometimes i wonder if they ever watch the matches of other rikishi.

he is really hopeless if he falls for that kind of moves.

i won't start bashing at Riki's poor sumo because i think Kokkai is the only one to blame in this case.

:-)

On the contrary, I think Kokkai was watching too many of Hokutoriki's bouts and listening to too much advice. He decided to intentionally "take the wind " out of Hokutouriki's attack by stalling him and not letting him run headlong at him when he's not "ready". He did it 23 times, and then decided he was "ready" to take Hoku's powerful frontal attack head on. Except Hokutoriki wasn't there.

Great henka.

Edited January 19, 2006 by Kintamayama

[aderechelsea 125]

Great henka.

indeed ...

done very strategically

[Zuikakuyama 1]

Even though I am a henka hater, nevertheless I enjoyed this one.

[Kintamayama 45,527]

Even though I am a henka hater, nevertheless I enjoyed this one.

If we're into confessions here, most of us pro- henka persons don't like all of them either. Some of them are downright dumb, but some , like today's, are done on rikishi that just BEG for it.

[sashimaru 10]

Even though I am a henka hater, nevertheless I enjoyed this one.

If we're into confessions here, most of us pro- henka persons don't like all of them either. Some of them are downright dumb, but some , like today's, are done on rikishi that just BEG for it.

Yes, Kokkai begged for that henka.

I hate henka, but that was great! :-)

[Jakusotsu 6,049]

some, like today's, are done on rikishi that just BEG for it.

just like Hokutoriki begged for it himself back in Natsu'04 against Hakuho... :-)

[Kintamayama 45,527]

some, like today's, are done on rikishi that just BEG for it.

just like Hokutoriki begged for it himself back in Natsu'04 against Hakuho... (On the banzuke...)

Exactly, but I was happy with that one for all the "wrong" reasons.. Now, let's see what happens tomorrow-will history repeat itself, or will Hoko, as he is sometimes called, get his revenge on Haku, as he is never called?

Edited January 19, 2006 by Kintamayama

[Yangnomazuma 79]

I thought the bout was OUTSTANDING. Hokutoriki is obviously a very smart one indeed. One of two things proves that. 1) He PURPOSEFULLY performed 4 matta with the very intention of ticking Kokkai off enough that a henka would face plant him immediately. OR 2) He suffered through the stalling tactics of Kokkai which caused him to matta four times and finally got ticked off himself and paid the indignant young Kokkai with a henka. Either way, I too find myself lacking a butt because I laughed it off. Should anyone find one floating along the coast of Japan, could you mail it back to Okinawa?

[Yangnomazuma 79]

I remember the last time these two faced off with yusho implications on the line, a lot of people claimed that Hakuho pulled the henka to help out Asashoryu. I'm not sure of that, but I'm nearly sure that we can expect no henka tomorrow. Hakuho has his own yusho dream still alive and he'll face this challenge head on. He's showing the type of sumo many claimed would make him the next ozeki. He's been beaten to that pinnacle by Kotooshu, but I think we can all agree that he IS NOW the next Ozeki.

[Flying_Monkey 0]

I thought the henka was entirely justified given Kokkai's messing about. Basically, it taught him a lesson - and this is exactly the kind of occasion on which a henka is entirely justified (and very amusing to boot).

As for Kokkai - he is one of the most frustrating rikishi out there: great against some of the big beasts but pathetic to the point of being laughable against much lesser opponents. He still has a lot to learn, I think. But if he does learn, he will be fearsome indeed...

[sekihiryu 51]

Henka smenka whatever I dont care who did it, but the fact that Hokutoriki did it and I greatly dislike Hokutoriki, I was hoping for Kokkai to smack him viciously about the chops and knock him out of the play off race, shame as it was the match I was looking forward to seeing the most today.

[Jonosuke 28]

Actually the first two times, Hokutoriki went out straight. I am not exactly a fan of Hokutoriki's tachiahi but for this one, Kokkai just dooidled too much and that probably just got too much for Hokutoriki. I felt Hokutoriki never intended to go with a henka before the bout. Kokkai deserved what he got in this case. It was a smart sumo by Hokutoriki. You learn sumo by losing. I am sure Kokkai will remember this one.

[Asashosakari 19,654]

If we're into confessions here, most of us pro- henka persons don't like all of them either. Some of them are downright dumb, but some , like today's, are done on rikishi that just BEG for it.

I'd like to second every single word of that.

[Kintamayama 45,527]

DISAGREE. waaay too early. pre planned tactic it looks like to me

Way too early is EXACTLY what brought Hokutouriki to where he stands this basho, i.e. with only one loss.

[aderechelsea 125]

Henka smenka whatever I dont care who did it, but the fact that Hokutoriki did it and I greatly dislike Hokutoriki, I was hoping for Kokkai to smack him viciously about the chops and knock him out of the play off race, shame as it was the match I was looking forward to seeing the most today.

well since this is turning into a "we hate Hokutoriki, but not for this henka" topic, i would like to cast in my vote too ....

He is the ONLY Hakkaku beya rikishi that i enjoy seing losing. I don't know why but i guess his "premature tachiaition" is one irritating matter and another is .... his face ...

don't laugh .... i don't know how is he in his personall life but he looks like an old grumpy man that don't leave kids play on the street in front of his house ... (yeah call me crazy as much as you like)

his Sumo style (tsuppari-tsuppari-nodowa-pull-nodowa-slap down-win) is not my favourite either.

[Bishonohana 0]

Henka smenka whatever I dont care who did it, but the fact that Hokutoriki did it and I greatly dislike Hokutoriki, I was hoping for Kokkai to smack him viciously about the chops and knock him out of the play off race, shame as it was the match I was looking forward to seeing the most today.

My feelings EXACTLY!! Kokkai let me (and lots other suno fans) down...:-S He also let himself down. I was so-o-o looking foward to seeing Hokutoriki get his loss from Kokkai! He fell right into Hoku's trap. (Alien stuff...) And then, Kokkai was shaking his head, like "I can't believe that happened!" (In jonokuchi...) DUH! :-S

[Manekineko 200]

Moderator Notice

Two Kokkai-Hokutoriki topics now merged, so some posts may seem non-sequiturish.

[Flying_Monkey 0]

I actually don't understand why so many of foreign fans appear to like Kokkai so much. Sometimes he doesn't even seem to know what sport he is supposed to be doing!

And I actually quite like Hokutoriki. I don't think he is a great rikishi by any means, but I like his expression of permanent disdain in particular... and when he wins like this, it seems particularly appropriate.

Kokkai in this bout was being profoundly disrespectful to another rikishi by messing about and pretending to put his fists down and then taking them back etc. This is not really acceptable traditionally, and it is getting way too common these days. Even my favourite Hakuho was up to it the other day. i don't like to see it, and basically Hokutoriki showed his feelings about what Kokkai was doing by letting him fall over like the big rude lumbering lummox he still is on too many occasions. This is exactly what a henka can be for - it shows legitimate contempt.

[troutbum 0]

I actually don't understand why so many of foreign fans appear to like Kokkai so much. Sometimes he doesn't even seem to know what sport he is supposed to be doing!

And I actually quite like Hokutoriki. I don't think he is a great rikishi by any means, but I like his expression of permanent disdain in particular... and when he wins like this, it seems particularly appropriate.

Kokkai in this bout was being profoundly disrespectful to another rikishi by messing about and pretending to put his fists down and then taking them back etc. This is not really acceptable traditionally, and it is getting way too common these days. Even my favourite Hakuho was up to it the other day. i don't like to see it, and basically Hokutoriki showed his feelings about what Kokkai was doing by letting him fall over like the big rude lumbering lummox he still is on too many occasions. This is exactly what a henka can be for - it shows legitimate contempt.

Actually Hokitoriki is the only rikshi I dislike, for me he appears rather arrogant, but hey I am only a silly gaijin, maybe for japanese his charakter is great. Anyway a guy who does more than 3 mattas in a match should be disqualified.

[slt 9]

Actually the first two times, Hokutoriki went out straight. I am not exactly a fan of Hokutoriki's tachiahi but for this one, Kokkai just dooidled too much and that probably just got too much for Hokutoriki. I felt Hokutoriki never intended to go with a henka before the bout. Kokkai deserved what he got in this case. It was a smart sumo by Hokutoriki. You learn sumo by losing. I am sure Kokkai will remember this one.

It's interesting how different fans can see things in opposite ways... My own opinion is pretty much the opposite of this - my sense is that Hokutoriki kept fouling the taichiai very deliberately (more visibly on the longer live stream than on the short sequence on Dale's page), to destabilize Kokkai. We've all seen rikishi REALLY take their time before actually putting down those fists, but I don't think there were any substantial moments where I felt this impatience today. Basically, everytime Kokkai was about ready to go, Hokutoriki pulled off another matta.

Of course, this is by no means a justification of Kokkai's blunder (which, in the end, IS his own fault), but I wouldn't say that Hokutoriki resorted to the henka to "pay Kokkai back" for his "tactics".

Remembering that "matta v henka" poll some time ago, I still think there's something somehow more "unethical" in deliberate destabilization through mattas than in the more-often criticized henka.

[Flying_Monkey 0]

It's interesting how different fans can see things in opposite ways... My own opinion is pretty much the opposite of this - my sense is that Hokutoriki kept fouling the taichiai very deliberately (more visibly on the longer live stream than on the short sequence on Dale's page), to destabilize Kokkai. We've all seen rikishi REALLY take their time before actually putting down those fists, but I don't think there were any substantial moments where I felt this impatience today. Basically, everytime Kokkai was about ready to go, Hokutoriki pulled off another matta.

But you have to look what Kokkai is doing here - he is not really attempting to start at all, but is basically pretending to put his hands down, then withdrawing etc. - trying to draw his opponent into matta. This is crafty perhaps, but disrespectful, and if he had succeeded it would have been a disgrace. It is not Hokutoriki who was attempting to destabilize his opponent's charge, but Kokkai.

Fists down bang, fine. Fists down, both rikishi hold and don't start, fine. One rikishi pretends to put his fists down, not fine at all.

Now whether Hokutoriki starts too quickly anyway...