Peterao 3 Posted July 23, 2006 According to NHK broadcast, Hakuho and Miyabiyama both will not be considered for promotion this basho, but both have kept their hopes alive for the next basho. I am in shock... (I am not worthy...) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AOZORA 0 Posted July 23, 2006 There will be no promotion for both Hakuho and Miyabiyama according to NHK. (I am not worthy...) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
madorosumaru 7 Posted July 23, 2006 According to sanspo, Hakuho will not be promoted to yokozuna after this basho. During the yusho interview, the interviewer had also mentioned that Asashoryu will again play the role of a "wall" to Hakuho next basho. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aderechelsea 125 Posted July 23, 2006 like this time ? hehe Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Peterao 3 Posted July 23, 2006 Actually, yes. They said that a 13 win yusho would have been enough for promotion. If Asashoryu hadn't won the yusho, Hakuho would have earned the promotion. So he was effectively a wall this time out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Itachi 396 Posted July 23, 2006 He must really regret that loss on shonichi to Asasekiryu. At least Miyabiyama is Ozeki caliber (he hasn't had as poor a record as 4 of 5 Ozeki this tournament since January. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hakuyobaku 33 Posted July 23, 2006 I mean, what's the deal here? 34 wins, all in double digits not enough for ozeki promotion? 14-1y, 13-2j not enough for yokozuna promotion? What was the deal with "if he wins 10 it will be a subject for a discussion" As Mr. Kitanoumi had noted? I remember him saying that 13 wins would be enough and a yusho was "desirable but not necesarry". We need a good Kitanoumi to English translator here, really... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aderechelsea 125 Posted July 23, 2006 Actually, yes. They said that a 13 win yusho would have been enough for promotion. If Asashoryu hadn't won the yusho, Hakuho would have earned the promotion. So he was effectively a wall this time out. the losses he had prevented him from becoming a Yokozuna ... At least these were the words of the interviewer and not Asa's because i would be very disappointed in our Yokozuna making statements like that after such an emphatic loss. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sildan 0 Posted July 23, 2006 My question is: how can the discussion already be done? They're still giving Asashoryu hardware.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Peterao 3 Posted July 23, 2006 Yes...the losses that Asashoryu himself did not have. It is my preference that Hakuho wins yokozuna promotion with a yusho win over Asashoryu, not just a head to head win. I would like to see him prove himself as Asashoryu's equal, not just on a single day, but over the course of an entire basho. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Peterao 3 Posted July 23, 2006 My question is: how can the discussion already be done? They're still giving Asashoryu hardware.... The decision was made before the national anthem played. The audience first became aware of it during the yusho interview, resulting in a shocked roar rippling through the crowd. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mokele 3 Posted July 23, 2006 I'm a little disappointed in the Kyokai's decision, particularly in the case of Miyabiyama who showed great fighting spirit and hinkaku in winning his last 5 bouts in a row. Maybe their decision to withhold ozeki promotion is because of Miyabiyama's previous poor run as ozeki several years ago, and they want him to demonstrate ozeki level sumo for 1 more basho. Personally I feel that another 10-5 result in the Aki basho should guarantee him ozeki promotion. I am not really disappointed that Hakuho will stay as an ozeki for the Aki basho. He is clearly the #2 man in sumo now, but he's only been an ozeki for 2 basho now and has only 1 yusho to his credit. Why not at least allow a couple more basho at ozeki before they promote him. If he wins the Aki basho in impressive fashion (say 13-2 or better) I would favor his promotion, but otherwise it is wise to allow him a bit more time as ozeki. He appears to be strong enough to be a yokozuna already but he's young and has plenty of time to achieve sumo's highest rank. It is very unwise to promote an ozeki to yokozuna before he has truly demonstrated that he can maintain a high level of performance for several basho in succession. The stories of the careers of Futahaguro (a boorish and uncontrollable disaster) and Onokuni (a nice guy but a poor yokozuna) should be fair warning. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hananotaka 8 Posted July 23, 2006 My question is: how can the discussion already be done? They're still giving Asashoryu hardware.... 'Cause it's not Kitanoumi and the Shimpan Bucho giving it out. (I am not worthy...) According to NHK, the content of Miyabiyama's sumo was the main reason he was denied promotion. Unfortunately, there wasn't much information regarding why Hakuho was promoted. I'm guessing the fact that it's only a 13-2 jun-yusho in his second Ozeki Basho was the main reason. Perhaps had it been 14-1, he would have gotten it on the "yusho equivalent". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sildan 0 Posted July 23, 2006 (edited) My question is: how can the discussion already be done? They're still giving Asashoryu hardware.... 'Cause it's not Kitanoumi and the Shimpan Bucho giving it out. :-) According to NHK, the content of Miyabiyama's sumo was the main reason he was denied promotion. Unfortunately, there wasn't much information regarding why Hakuho was promoted. I'm guessing the fact that it's only a 13-2 jun-yusho in his second Ozeki Basho was the main reason. Perhaps had it been 14-1, he would have gotten it on the "yusho equivalent". That was my point. Official information from an unofficial source. But Japanese speakers who actually heard what was said are taking it as solid, so I must too. :'-( Edited July 23, 2006 by sildan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Misisko 0 Posted July 23, 2006 The worst thing on all these things about the promotion of Hakuho is that, if Kaio or Tochiazuma or any other JAPANESE rikishi had score 13-2, 13-2, 14-1, 13-2 in last 4 bashos they will promote him without any problems... And nobody will be care if 13-2 is "only" Jun-yusho, and nobody will be care if last bout was about Yusho or not... (Sign of disapproval) :-) :'-( (Annoyed...) >:-( Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Peterao 3 Posted July 23, 2006 If he deserves to be promoted, he will ultimately be promoted. By not promoting Hakuho or Miyabiyama with borderline performances, the Kyokai is in a win-win position. If the rikishi bomb next basho, they will appear quite wise. If they do well, the Kyokai will simply say that they did what it takes to earn the promotion without question. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sildan 0 Posted July 23, 2006 The worst thing on all these things about the promotion of Hakuho is that, if Kaio or Tochiazuma or any other JAPANESE rikishi had score 13-2, 13-2, 14-1, 13-2 in last 4 bashos they will promote him without any problems... And nobody will be care if 13-2 is "only" Jun-yusho, and nobody will be care if last bout was about Yusho or not... (Sign of disapproval) :-) :'-( (Annoyed...) >:-( Well, Kaio's last attempt in 2004 was a jun-yusho and an extension. Only 12-3 though. I don't like the decision this time, but, as others have said, I don't think it will hurt to be prudent and give Hakuho a little more time as Ozeki, either. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maxim 0 Posted July 23, 2006 The worst thing on all these things about the promotion of Hakuho is that, if Kaio or Tochiazuma or any other JAPANESE rikishi had score 13-2, 13-2, 14-1, 13-2 in last 4 bashos they will promote him without any problems... And nobody will be care if 13-2 is "only" Jun-yusho, and nobody will be care if last bout was about Yusho or not... (Sign of disapproval) :-) :'-( (Annoyed...) >:-( I really respect Hakuho and Miyabiyama, but I think this will only make them more determined to win. Especially for Hakuho, there may be a lot of speculation if he's to be promoted to Yokozuna. People will say Asashoryu let him win Las Vegas style, so there would be two mongolian Yokozuna. I think this sends a clear message to Hakuho - "you can become Yokozuna in September, but you have to prove you're the best". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andreas 0 Posted July 23, 2006 The announcer compared Hakuhos situation to Takanohana. Takanohana also had a 14-1Y followed by a 13-2 and wasnt promoted (probably also because he was still very young), only to be promoted some time later with 2 zensho. I think the Kyoukai had the same reasoning here: Hakuho wasnt 100% convincing, and hes good enough and young enough to become Yokozuna later if they dont promote him now. For Miyabiyama: I thought he should be promoted, but checking former Ozeki promotions I noticed that the last promotion with a 10-5 in the last basho was 1966... they probably prefer an upwards tendency for promotion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Misisko 0 Posted July 23, 2006 If he deserves to be promoted, he will ultimately be promoted.By not promoting Hakuho or Miyabiyama with borderline performances, the Kyokai is in a win-win position. If the rikishi bomb next basho, they will appear quite wise. If they do well, the Kyokai will simply say that they did what it takes to earn the promotion without question. Kaio was in another position, 10-5, 11-4, 13-2 and 12-3 is not that impressing compared to Hakuho's results... However, I'm sure that for Hakuho this will mean only 1 basho delay for his promotion as he is already a yokozuna in eyes of fans :'-(, on the other hand also Kitanoumi was able to finish his 12-3, 12-3, 13-2, 13-2 serie with weak 9-6 and did it mean that his form is not stable for Yokozuna rank?, and examples like that we can found for each dai-Yokozuna.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Guyjin Posted July 23, 2006 If he deserves to be promoted, he will ultimately be promoted.By not promoting Hakuho or Miyabiyama with borderline performances, the Kyokai is in a win-win position. If the rikishi bomb next basho, they will appear quite wise. If they do well, the Kyokai will simply say that they did what it takes to earn the promotion without question. It's bums on cushions isn't it? The JSK gets a 'nice little earner' in September. Far more punters will cough up to see rikishi challenge for promotion than bask in their new rankings. Can someone who has the facts to hand confirm that several years ago Musashimaru won promotion to Yokuzuna by defeating Akebono on the last day (winning his 2nd consecutive yusho). -- Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tikozan 4 Posted July 23, 2006 Hakuho: I think, an Ozeki must win 2 Bashos successively for the promotion. :'-( Miyabiyama: I don't understand, that 34 victories should be not enough. o.k. Hakuho had 35 and Kotooshu 36 wins before the promotion, but 34 also must be enough! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AOZORA 0 Posted July 23, 2006 Kyokai's decision not to promote Hakuho was because Hakuho let Asashoryu to dominate whole basho with no much competition. They told that Hakuho could not actively compete for yusho, and Shoryu's yusho was decided before Hakuho and Shoryu match. This was exactly the point which made Mainoumi so disappointed. Mainoumi was saying that if so, why not to set Hakuho VS Shoryu bout on the 14th day. Mainoumi was the one who was for Hakuho, even he mentioned that there should be no reason not to promote him and Kyokai does not have wish to promote Hakuho. Kitanofuji, who was attending as caster today, was against Mainoumi and even told him "That is not our problem , the people in shinpanbu will decide that". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Karatoshi Posted July 23, 2006 It's time that sumo gets clear rules. Without rules a few man can every time do what they want. Promotion rules for ozeki: i.e. 34 or 35 or whatever but a fixed number yokozuna promotion: 2 consecutive or 1 yusho and then 13 or 14 wins or whatever This state that now exists is very very bad! Didn't they promote xy because he is foreigner or they don't like him? Such questions wouldn't come if the rules would be clear. And rules for banzuke calculating too! It's out of question that some riskishis are preferred :'-( Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Peterao 3 Posted July 23, 2006 It's time that sumo gets clear rules. Without rules a few man can every time do what they want.Promotion rules for ozeki: i.e. 34 or 35 or whatever but a fixed number yokozuna promotion: 2 consecutive or 1 yusho and then 13 or 14 wins or whatever This state that now exists is very very bad! What you are suggesting would send the message that in sumo, winning is not only the most important thing, it is the only thing. While this message may be fine for American football, the consequence would be sanyaku rikishi fighting and acting a lot more like Roho, which is not something I, and most other sumo fans, would not want to see. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
